Lubuntu versus Debian with Lxqt

I really love Lubuntu. Since a long time already. But… what would be my personal benefit of using Lubuntu 22.04 versus Debian11 with Lxqt?

Well, I need to be honest. Lubuntu is nice. It is polished and very stable. I really love it.

But… what are really the benefits of using Lubuntu versus Debian11 with Lxqt?

I’ve tried the latter. It seems to be very OK to me. With some easy tweaking (and the Lubuntu font and some themes) I was quickly able to ‘mimic’ Lubuntu “Jammy”, for say 98%. Seems some well established packages are more advanced on Debian11+Lxqt compared to Jammy (even without considering Debian12 yet).

So, what are really the benefits of using the upcoming Lubuntu 22.04?

Or, put in another way. Is it really worth it - for you guys, the dedicated team (a handfull I guess), and all the testers, who get Lubuntu up and running as an independent distribution each six months - spending so much personal time?

I do not want to be rude, or underestimate your efforts. I appreciate your work. I am only wondering which distribution I should choose as my next stable distribution for the coming 3, 4 mayby 5 years :slight_smile:

Curious about your opinion. Keep up the good work!!

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I’m both a Debian bookworm & Ubuntu jammy user. My Lubuntu system has a later version of LXQt than Debian testing, as Debian testing still has the LXQt that was used by Lubuntu 21.04.

Note: I’m referring to Debian bookworm which will be Debian 12; as that’s what I use on my Debian system; Lubuntu 21.04 had the same version of LXQt that is found in both Debian 11 bullseye and currently Debian 12 bookworm.

Yes a later version of LXQt sits at salsa.debian.org but it’s not yet being packaged for sid let alone further down the line (we hoped it would get to sid so we could use it Lubuntu jammy!)

Package versions of Ubuntu vs Debian (supported releases & ESM for Ubuntu)

 lxqt-about | 0.10.0-3        | xenial/universe | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
 lxqt-about | 0.12.0-4        | bionic/universe | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, ppc64el, s390x
 lxqt-about | 0.14.1-1ubuntu2 | focal/universe  | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
 lxqt-about | 0.17.0-0ubuntu1 | impish/universe | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
 lxqt-about | 0.17.0-0ubuntu1 | jammy/universe  | source, amd64, arm64, armhf, ppc64el, riscv64, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.11.1-1      | oldoldstable   | source, amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.14.1-1      | oldstable      | source, amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.16.0-1      | stable         | source, amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.16.0-1      | testing        | source, amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.16.0-1      | unstable       | source, amd64, arm64, armel, armhf, i386, mips64el, mipsel, ppc64el, s390x
lxqt-about | 0.16.0-1      | unstable-debug | source

I was a Debian GNU/Linux user before the Ubuntu project even got started, but back in those days I wouldn’t touch any Linux distribution that didn’t have GNU in it’s name, Debian used GNU/Linux at that time, so I was happy. It wasn’t until around ~2010 (ie. six years into the Ubuntu project) that i finally started using Ubuntu Linux, so I was a late starter.

I liked Ubuntu (and to me Lubuntu is just a Ubuntu system, so it’s common for me to refer to Lubuntu as Ubuntu) in that most of the time I can act as if I’m using a Debian GNU/Linux system, even though really I know it’s rather different. For servers, I find it harder to use a Ubuntu system over Debian, but not so with Desktop systems as really Ubuntu is just easier. If you want closed-source drivers, Ubuntu systems have ubuntu-drivers & other easy scripts that just save time. If I completely stuff up a system, I know I can get both a Debian or Ubuntu system back operational, but it’ll be less work & faster to get a Ubuntu system back in operation (here I’m talking about a bad stuff up that requires re-install).

I’m very pro-Debian… in fact I got started contributing to Ubuntu because I was having trouble getting started contributing with Debian, and found Ubuntu easier… I’m a Ubuntu Member, Lubuntu Member (inc. on Lubuntu Council), but I still do cherish when I finally got upload permissions to a Debian project. I spend far more time with Ubuntu/Lubuntu (I’m involved with more than just Lubuntu) than I do with Debian… but I love both.

To me anyway, I still find desktop system easier to manage with Ubuntu, and for some reason tend to prefer using Debian for servers (even though Debian is more work to plan for than Ubuntu with its very predictable release schedules!)

I’m happy with both, would be perfectly happy using either of them (if unable to use the other) but in most cases Ubuntu systems are just easier.

I seem to remember Ubuntu being advertized somewhere as “Debian made easy”.

FYI: Also note with Debian I don’t just use Debian testing as my initial paragraph stated; the first machine I touch every day runs Debian stable, it’s also the last machine I usually touch too, though most of the day I’m using Ubuntu systems. On this Ubuntu jammy system (my primary PC), most of my file-storage is being served by Debian bullseye. This system is dual boot, but beyond the jammy I’m currently using the other system I have installed is focal (ie. Ubuntu development and lts). Both systems have multiple-desktops installed & my most used is Lubuntu/LXQt; but this isn’t my only PC.

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What a quick and honest response. I think it all boils down to your remark:

I still find desktop system easier to manage with Ubuntu

(and if you say Ubuntu, you mean Lubuntu as well :slight_smile: ).

Ofcourse, my personal “works” are on some NAS. hence it is very easy for me to switch to any chosen desktop on my primary “desktop” PC, at any time. Just need to install some extra tooling, copy some configuration files, and I am fine to go.

At end of the day, I guess “Debian11|12 with Lxqt” would be a viable solution for me, or perhaps ArchLinux. However, I still did not figure out how to “fix” the remaining 2% (see my post).

Being lazy (got enough other things on my head, considering servers, programming environments, etc), I think I will stick to the upcoming L22.04 LTS :slight_smile: .

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Support for this specific configuration, and support that comes from a very knowledgeable community.

That’s the first reason that springs to mind. The knowledge in the community is amazing, with an accumulated decades of experience.

Full disclosure: I’m a Lubuntu Member.

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You have given a very good reason for me to stick with Lubuntu. However, I am still thinking, and not decided yet what to choose as my next DoC (‘desktop of choice’) for the next few years.

In the back of my head there are some reminiscent thoughts I gained from some video’s and blogs, considering privacy aspects of Lubuntu’s underlying Ubuntu-based OS. Debian seems to have a better position on this.

Not that full privacy, or absolutely 100% true open source, are really the deciding factors. Haven’t we all seen ripped-of VHS-tapes in the eighties, or enjoyed a free beer (and decided to return one or two), now and then?

Full disclosure: I really love Lubuntu.

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I’m in the camp of, “Try it.” See if you prefer it. If it’s what you prefer, then by all means you should use it.

Lubuntu is the right choice for me. That may not be true for you.

I wrote this some time ago, and it’s salient today:

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Comparing apples to oranges Debian vs Lubuntu 20.04 five an a half six another.

Comparing apples to oranges Debian vs Lubuntu 22.04 Debian way smokes Lubuntu 22.04 desktop to desktop.

I’m using SparkyLinux 6.3 LXQT on the same computer as Lubuntu 22.04 and SparkyLinux uses way less memory than Lubuntu 22.04.

Not much difference at idle however enough that ya notice the big difference comes when ya bust open the Firefox Snap browser way difference in amount of memory being used.

Can’t exactly pinpoint amount of difference as it depends on what you are doing on the browser streaming videos or just web surfing.

Users with newer computers with 4 core or more processors with 8.0GB or more of memory will probably never notice a difference.

So between a LXQT Debian base non Snap Linux distro vs Lubuntu 22.04 Linux distro I choosing the Debian base for my old outdated computers.

Please don’t take me the wrong way as I’m not bashing Lubuntu 22.04 but let’s face it Lubuntu 22.04 just ain’t the same as it used to be.

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Although the 22.04 LTE is already available for a few weeks, I still did not have found time to update my system. I’ve been following the development towards the latest LTE with interest (downloaded and installed candidates frequently in VirtualBox), and all seems to be well. Memory is not my main problem (16 GB on board), but capacity is a thing, with a Celeron with only two cores running at max 1.5 GHz if I’m lucky.

I am a great fan of Lubuntu, but I just did not find the time… Or am I hesitating, because of the snaps?

When (i.e. after) the Firefox-snap is running, all is well, but I do experience longer startup times, and that is annoying.

As a result of your message I’ve decided to install Sparky rolling in VB. First experiences with SLR are encouraging. The graphical state of the lxqt implementation is very neat. Firefox surely loads 50% faster than with snaps.

I almost forgot how quickly Firefox used to start. It feels like experiencing the speed improvement-shock after changing from HD to SSD when they first appeared.

After playing a bit with Sparky, I do not seem to miss Lubuntu very much, and that’s a first.

Difficult choice ahead: migrate to Lubuntu 22.04 LTE, or just move on to SparkyLinux.

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Yeah the more I use 22.04 version series the harder I’m finding reasons to keep it.

22.04 version series is just not the same as previous 20.04 versions.

I’m not the only user who has noticed this.
I read the same on other Linux forums and not just one but several.

I’m still trying to find a reason to keep using 22.04 version series but I don’t know.

It just ain’t the same now.

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A generic reply, but I really don’t see any difference between Lubuntu and Debian (with LXQt)

guiverc@d780-2204:~$   cat neofetch.*
       _,met$$$$$gg.          guiverc@dc780-deb 
    ,g$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$P.       ----------------- 
  ,g$$P"     """Y$$.".        OS: Debian GNU/Linux bookworm/sid x86_64 
 ,$$P'              `$$$.     Host: OptiPlex 780 
',$$P       ,ggs.     `$$b:   Kernel: 5.17.0-1-amd64 
`d$$'     ,$P"'   .    $$$    Uptime: 6 mins 
 $$P      d$'     ,    $$P    Packages: 4296 (dpkg) 
 $$:      $$.   -    ,d$$'    Shell: bash 5.1.16 
 $$;      Y$b._   _,d$P'      Resolution: 1280x1024, 1280x1024 
 Y$$.    `.`"Y$$$$P"'         DE: LXQt 0.16.0 
 `$$b      "-.__              WM: Openbox 
  `Y$$                        WM Theme: Arc_OSX                                                                              
   `Y$$.                      Theme: Clearlooks [GTK2/3] 
     `$$b.                    Icons: YaruExtendedDark [GTK2/3] 
       `Y$$b.                 Terminal: qterminal 
          `"Y$b._             Terminal Font: IBM Plex Mono 11 
              `"""            CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 (4) @ 2.667GHz 
                              GPU: AMD ATI Radeon HD 5000/6000/7350/8350 Series 
                              Memory: 1022MiB / 7826MiB 

                                                      
                                                      


           `-mddhhhhhhhhhddmss`             guiverc@d780-2204 
        ./mdhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.         -----------------                                                                
     :mdhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhm`       OS: Lubuntu Jammy Jellyfish (development branch) x86_64                          
   :ymhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyhhhhhhhhhy:      Host: OptiPlex 780                                                               
  `odhyyyhhhhhhhhhy+-````./syhhhhhhhho`     Kernel: 5.15.0-25-generic                                                        
 `hhy..:oyhhhhhhhy-`:osso/..:/++oosyyyh`    Uptime: 3 mins                                                                   
 dhhs   .-/syhhhhs`shhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyhs    Packages: 1749 (dpkg), 7 (snap)                                                  
:hhhy`  yso/:+syhy/yhhhhhshhhhhhhhhhhhhh:   Shell: bash 5.1.16                                                               
hhhhho. +hhhys++oyyyhhhhh-yhhhhhhhhhhhhhs   Resolution: 1280x1024, 1280x1024                                                 
hhhhhhs-`/syhhhhyssyyhhhh:-yhhhhhhhhhhhhh   DE: LXQt 0.17.1                                                                  
hhhhhhs  `:/+ossyyhyyhhhhs -yhhhhhhhhhhhh   WM: Openbox                                                                      
hhhhhhy/ `syyyssyyyyhhhhhh: :yhhhhhhhhhhs   WM Theme: Lubuntu Arc                                                            
:hhhhhhyo:-/osyhhhhhhhhhhho  ohhhhhhhhhh:   Theme: Arc-Darker [GTK3]                                                         
 sdhhhhhhhyyssyyhhhhhhhhhhh+  +hhhhhhhhs    Icons: Adwaita [GTK3]                                                            
 `shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy+` .yhhhhhhhh`    Terminal: qterminal                                                              
  +sdhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhyo/. `/yhhhhhhhd`     Terminal Font: Ubuntu Mono 14                                                    
   `:shhhhhhhhhh+---..``.:+yyhhhhhhh:       CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 (4) @ 2.659GHz                                      
     `:mdhhhhhh/.syssyyyyhhhhhhhd:`         GPU: AMD ATI Radeon HD 5000/6000/7350/8350 Series                                
        `+smdhhh+shhhhhhhhhhhhdm`           Memory: 543MiB / 7822MiB                                                         
           `sNmdddhhhhhhhddm-`                                                                                               
                                                                    


guiverc@d780-2204:~$

Yes firefox is a snap package, which is slower to start, but that can be changed if a user doesn’t want the slower-first start.

My Ubuntu system has a newer LXQt than my Debian bookworm/sid does as I’ve stated before.

This post is a neofetch run on the same box straight after boot (I was a little faster on Ubuntu as it was on Debian I decided what paste I’d create).

If you notice the kernel is outdated on Lubuntu/Ubuntu; yes I don’t perform full-upgrades on this box, but upgrade packages via a QA-test re-install and haven’t started doing that using the updated jammy daily yet, so it’s still as the Lubuntu 22.04 LTS was released. I do have configuration changes on this box (so it’s not a clean install), but it’s little changed system.

The Debian will have far more changes, and I suspect it’ll have services started at boot that makes it faster when I use it (which is daily; compare the packages installed) thus memory usage is likely higher than after a clean install. My Debian system also has snapd running, as I find it useful to me (as I’ve stated before)

My point though is Lubuntu gives me a later LXQt, and in my opinion an ~identical system. I perform QA-tests on both system (but with Debian it’s after freeze has occurred so its far less often, where as with Ubuntu/Lubuntu it’s most of the cycle)

To me Debian vs Ubuntu is chocolate versus strawberry ice-cream; I use both as I like my ice-cream (GNU/Linux) and the flavor is insignificant to me.

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Why? Just do it. Simply change to the distribution you like. Problem solved.

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Done deal.

image

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I also noticed that. Installed opensuse tumbleweed for a spin alongside my kubuntu install and it blows kubuntu out of the water and uses less than 600 mb of ram, while kubuntu used close to 700mb. And opensuse’s iso is 4.3gb yet it took up less space than kubuntu.

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I also changed; not to sparky linux but to opensuse tumbleweed as i have the latest packages on board and it is also possible to rollback incase an update breaks. No update has broken on me, and the only time i needed to rollback was when i changed a proxy setting in Yast.

I tested many distros over the past one month, opensuse fits my needs.

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After (mostly) browsing on SparkyLinux in a VB setting a few days, I am impressed with it (SL). Thanks to LXQt the look and feel is almost like in Lubuntu. I appreciate the efforts of everyone in the small Lubuntu team for the work they are doing now and have been doing in the past.

It is not their fault (or merit) that some people – including myself – have doubts about the current snap developments in Lubuntu, and what may be ahead of us. I am using my desktop for scripting and programming, and I am a fan of how the Debian-bread of Linux-es are organized. So, for me it would be a small step to switch to SparkyLinux or Debian with LXQt, since as well the GUI as the OS will be almost identical apart from different graphical sugaring. I did try Debian with their provided LXQt. I liked it (ofcourse, it is LXQt), but I was not satisfied with it. Their LXQt is graphically just not as nice and polished as Lubuntu. SparkyLinux is better in that respect.

If I would switch to SparkyLinux their graphical nuts and bolts are good enough for me. Except for the lack of the Ubuntu fonts. It is not too complex to add those. It would mean: 1) no more snap when I don’t like it or need it; and 2) an OS that is probably closer to Debian (meaning less questionable Ubuntu-added features).

Moving to OpenSuse would be interesting, but more challenging for me. I will install it in VirtualBox and test their LXQt. I’ve been trying Suse Linux when it first appeared some odd 15 years ago. I can’t remember what graphical interface it provided back then. I do remember that I did not like the rpm system and the YaST package manager. I was too much used to the Debian way of how the OS is organised, and Suse was just too different IMHO. But I will try it. Challenging, hopefully not backbreaking :sweat_smile:

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Opensuse leap would be best if you want an easy to setup system. If suse is too challenging, try gecko linux.

It provides kde plasma by default, but you can install lxqt during install instead of kde. Rpm or deb doesn’t matter when you can install most apps using flathub.

I use Debian 11.3 on my ThinkPad T40 (32-bit proc with PAE) and it works great. I switched the window management to the default openbox to save even more memory. Since running more than a just a few applications is a bit painful with 2001 era hardware, I have no need for a panel with the desktop. It works pretty well only the Firefox browser is sluggish but that is expected due to the huge memory requirement for a modern browser.

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